Talk:Dragon Language
If anyone wants to add words to the list, note that when I created the list of words I didn't manually write all the image links in the right order, I wrote a script to do it for me. It's available at http://jsfiddle.net/jkxQz/ Q and Y Strun Bah Qo and Yol Toor Krein anyone? UESP is much more cleaner than this wiki, honestly. The Q and Y letters have already been released, somebody update it for Ysmir's sake. - Crusader (Crusader's Mailbag) 03:57, November 5, 2011 (UTC) Wanting to split the page Does anyone here object to me splitting this page? I think it would be better to have a separate page for the Dragon alphabet (i.e. the letters themselves), and one for the Dragon language (with the complete list of words and their meanings). Timeoin•Say G'Day• •See current projects 03:48, November 13, 2011 (UTC) I think it would be good to have them separated. I can work on alphabet anchor links to improve the navigation through the dragon language. It's a bit TL;DR and I need to use Ctrl+ F to navigate it.KeiratheScribe (talk) 05:00, November 13, 2011 (UTC) Past tense? Is it time to switch all these pages from past tense (would it be post tense?) Example: "When skyrim comes out" instead it will say "Since Skyrim has been released" or something like that? It's a bit annoying. Excuse any poor grammar. Dragonstones and Dragon Walls Has anyone seen any transcriptions/translations of the Dragonstones and the Dragon Walls on the web anywhere? I've been taking screen shots and working through them on my own, but I haven't seen that they've been posted. Also, I haven't received my copy of the strategy guide yet, so I have no idea if this information is in the book. Would anyone object to my creating a separate page or pages to post this information? Also, I would be more than happy to volunteer to clean up the existing alphabet and lexicon. I have the draconic alphabet font on my computer as well, so can create a table with the runes/transcription/translation if there is interest. 06:39, November 14, 2011 (UTC)silverdragon686 I'm working on at least getting it them to the romanization point (from the written to the english character equivilent) and translating the words as best I can, then adding them to the location pages for them.VolsungScubaGear (talk) 09:34, December 11, 2011 (UTC)VolsungScubaGearVolsungScubaGear (talk) 09:34, December 11, 2011 (UTC) Missing Translation I'm wondeting if anyone has found a translation for the characters that are currently (incorrectly) scribed as "oo" - such as "Toor", the second word in Fire Breath. The T & R are correct translated. However, there is no translation for the middle character it would appear, and "Toor" is definitely not correct. Whatever the middle character is, it's clearly not "oo". I've listened to the shout and tried things that make sense (Tur, Tour, Tuur, Tuer, Tohr, Tuhr), but I've come up empty. That said, I often find that what the character shouts doesn't actually sound anything like the translation of the Dragon Script into English Script (the third word is 'Shul', and what he shouts for a full Fire Breath sure doesn't sound like "Yul Toor Shul"). The character in question is the following: http://brutix.com/img/xlrm/letter2-inferno.png 19:24, November 14, 2011 (UTC) Answer: The symbol or rune to which you are referring is actually "oo"; it's one of the two-letter symbols that have appeared after the game release. It's possible that the runes do not sound like their English counterparts either because the in-game character is speaking with an accent (like several of the NPCs) or because your personal regional dialect may pronounce them differently. This is particularly the case with vowels and considering your 6 alternatives from above, is mostly likely the reason. For example: American Dialects. Or, if you want to have some fun: American Accent Quiz and Where is the Speaker from? Silverdragon686 (talk) 05:05, November 18, 2011 (UTC) References and Resources Would someone be willing to proofread the new content and make any necessary notes for references and/or resources? I tried my best, but I'll admit I probably didn't catch everything in my last edit. Plus, a second pair of eyes always helps... Phonetic transcription I think this page could benifit from more accurate phonological transcriptions. Maybe some IPA symbols? Answer: Is there a reason you would suggest phonetic transcriptions? There shouldn't be a need, since the runes stand for English letters (or combinations) and therefore have the same sounds as the English letters. The words given on the list are transcribed from the runes then translated into English. The word list comes directly from the strategy guide. Adding another set of unnecessary symbols (such as IPA) may clutter the page and make the lexicon/dictionary less user-friendly. Addition: Refer to answer in post above. I would also submit that not only do most people not know how to read IPA transcriptions, but different pronounciations (due to accents/dialects) mean the transcriptions would not be 100% accurate for every individual. Unless you mean to transcribe the character's dialect? Silverdragon686 (talk) 04:42, November 18, 2011 (UTC)(forgot to log in) Answer: You say "English sounds", problem with that is that english has quite a lot of sounds per letter that differ on a word by word basis. A comparasion to a british or american accent, or better, a video with the pronounciations presented would be nice to know the difference of i/ii, a/aa, ei/ey, ... and what 'x' refers to. December 2, 2011 (Guest who haven't registered a user on this wiki) Dragon language game sourced TTF Ok, new here. Seeing this article I couldn't help but do the following: #Extract 'fonts_en.swf' from 'Skryim - Interface.bsa' (PC Steam version) #Use Action Script Viewer to open 'fonts_en.swf' #File > Extract Resources > Save All Fonts as TTF #Attain 'Dragon_script.ttf' font {C At this point I loaded it up in FontCreator and tested the typing. Turns out 35 Dragonic symbols are there, some of which are unknown! It uses 0-9 to store the double character symbols. These symbols are as follows: 0 = unknown ; 1 = 'aa' ; 2 = 'ei' ; 3 = 'ii' ; 4 = 'ah' ; 5 = 'uu' ; 6 = unknown ; 7 = unknown ; 8 = 'oo' ; 9 = 'ey'; Note that in Win7, it shows Arial symbols for some of the lowercase, but normally there is no lowercase, so typing with caps lock on will remedy this problem. TL;DR: You can get the complete alphabet from the game itself. Making the symbols 100% cannon, and there is a slight glitch under Win7. Download Mediafire {C EDIT: The C is actually 'ey'. :( TheSuperNerd (talk) 09:47, November 21, 2011 (UTC) Add: This is awesome, thanks for finding! If someone hasn't beaten me to it later today, I'll update the alphabet section. Note on the number keys (aka the double characters): 0 is still an unknown, and could have been discarded from the game. According to the guide, there are only 34 characters and the lexicon is built from those. 1="aa", 2="ei", 3="ii", 4="ah", 5="uu", 6="ur", 7="ir", 8="oo", 9="ey" and the C key is a repeat of the "ey" symbol (as stated) Silverdragon686 (talk) 19:31, November 21, 2011 (UTC) GE suffix I noticed that in the Bleak Falls Barrows Dragonstone's translation the word "DROGGE" is translated as DROG- Lord. I wonder what GE is, i personally think that is is a S suffix as "Lord's'" fit. A Wikia Contributer, at an unknown time. Add: maybe, but I think it'd be better to wait till we have something to cross-reference it too (like another word with a -GE suffix). Hopefully some DLC or word-from-on-high will clear things up. And don't forget to sign your talkings. TheSuperNerd (talk) 00:18, November 24, 2011 (UTC) Alphabetical order Should the alphabetical order of the lexicon be reversed? I'm pretty sure not everyone is a fluent speaker of Dragonish. If the English side were in alphabetical order, we could find words easier. Thesaurus Rex (talk) 16:09, November 28, 2011 (UTC) It might be useful to just have both versions-- I only went to this page because I kept on seeing Krosis everywhere and wanted to know wth it meant. Would have been difficult if it had been reversed. 21:25, November 30, 2011 (UTC)Slits Transcription I want to know how to actually transcript these things. For instance, why does Yol mean fire? Why does "x" word mean "x" word in english? If I knew these things, then I could probably make any word I needed. Answer: There is no particular reason for yol to mean fire in English, in the same way that there is no reason for fuego (Spanish for fire) to mean the same. This is a new language they have created, not just a code. There do, however, seem to be words that are directly borrowed from other languages. Hiligaynon looks like a promising source, since it contains a word used by dragons in the game that has yet to be translated, "balaan" meaning divine or virtuous, which coincides well with the context in which the word is used in dialogue in the game. (See Milmunir and Paarthurnax dialogues.) Wrayshine2 (talk) 01:30, December 15, 2011 (UTC) Hi all. This article merits it's own website and translator. I'm currently building out DragonLanguage.org, with the hopes of being done by the end of the week. (signiture needed) In the game, the dialogue with Paarthurnax seems to reveal a large number of previously unknown words, and I thought I would try and contribute what I found. Here are a few additional words (I'll add more as I go) that I've found in conversation with Paarthurnax and the meaning that their context seems to imply. *Tinvaak: conversation or perhaps socialisation. "You would not come all this way for tinvaak with an old dragon." He makes use of this word multiple times with the same implied meaning each time. *Volaan: An alternative form of "joor" perhaps? "Why do you come here, volaan?" Draugr use it as well. "Dir volaan!" presumably, Die mortal! *Sossedov: Dragonblood. "Sossedov los mul. The dragonblood is strong in you." *Balaan: virtuous, upright, true. "They are very protective of me. Balaan fahdon. friends." this word is also used by Milmunir "Balaan hokoron." when he is complementing the bravery and strength of the guards he is attacking. *Wuhlsetiid: Whirlwind of Time. A complex of "wuhl", whirlwind, and "tiid", time. A metaphor or name for the medium through which one moves when travelling through time. "Even we who ride the currents of Time cannot see past Time's end. Wuhlsetiid los tahrodiis. Whirlwind of Time is treacherous." *Kelle: The Elder Scrolls, a pluralisation of "Kel". "The Kelle, The Elder Scrolls as you call them..." *Wuth: my. "You will see them...wuth fadon...my friends." *Suleyk: Power. "This is the true meaning of "yol". Suleyk. Power." *Vonmindoraan: incomprehensible, or a thing which is incomprehensible. "A truly vonmindoraan...an incomprehensible idea to the immortal dov." This is improperly spelled in the article (or in the source for the article) at the moment. *Vomindok: I do not know, or it is unknown. "Vomindok. I do not know. Perhaps they erased the knowledge from time itself..." *Se: Of, implying the genetive case (as in "He is of good stock.") I concluded this from Sossedov, Wuhlsetiid, and Junnesejer, which are each complexes of Sos-se-dov (blood of dragons), Wuhl-se-tiid (whirldwind of time) and Jun-se-jer (kings of east). I would just add them to the article myself, but I would rather have some discussion go on as to whether the translations are justified. Wrayshine2 (talk) 01:30, December 15, 2011 (UTC) Wrayshine2: thank you for these! Do you have the entire conversation written down somewhere and not just the words you were pulling from them? I'm compliling all known words as well as th text they are used in as part of a full overhaul of the known words/mini-dictionary I think should be added and I have yet to go back through and get Paarthrunax's dialogue pulled for it. Since you've already done the work for those, perhaps we could compare notes? Also, I noticed the same thing with Se!VolsungScubaGear (talk) 00:45, December 16, 2011 (UTC)VolsungScubaGearVolsungScubaGear (talk) 00:45, December 16, 2011 (UTC) I didn't write anything down except the individual phrases I found the words in, and I got that from a video of the conversation someone posted on youtube (thankfully they had subtitles on). Wrayshine2 (talk) 18:37, December 23, 2011 (UTC) ipwnstar4hire has a video with subtitles of the first time you meet (episode 47 of his walktrough). I can try to record my own playthorugh and everytime he talks when I get to that point, if I remeber. But yes, paruntaax does seem to have quite a bit of words yet to be added.... Why is this text linking?Jabberwockxeno (talk) 03:35, December 25, 2011 (UTC) Trivia: Tafiir = Taffer : P Tafiir is "thief" in draconic? Bethesda devs, I see what you did thar... Taffer Garrett from the Thief series of games says hi! 17:27, December 12, 2011 (UTC) Known Words/Common Words and other general formatting Why is there a Known Words and Common Words section? Shouldn't they all be "known words"? Also the page layout doesn't make very much sense. There should probably be an entirely separate page for all known words and what they have been translated to; a mini-dictionary, I guess. With this page being the 'general information' page for the Language. Perhaps with the various word wall translations and other in game appearances on it along with the gameinformer preview (and that translation should be moved below the alphabet, imo). Thoughts?VolsungScubaGear (talk) 00:38, December 16, 2011 (UTC)VolsungScubaGearVolsungScubaGear (talk) 00:38, December 16, 2011 (UTC) I think it makes sense to have the known and common words separated but the distinction should perhaps be called out and/or renamed to remove the confusion expressed here. The known words are all from the prophecy of the dragonborn for which 1st party translation has been provided by Bethesda and is beyond dispute. The common words are from the Skyrim Game Guide and various in game sources which are subject to error, as shown by the presence of disagreements. Irrelevant Label (talk) 18:34, December 31, 2011 (UTC) volaan (A taunt used by Draugr, "Dir Volaan!" might be Vol - Aan = "A Horror") - edited to remove "might be Vol-Aan" due to the fact that it would translate to "horror-a" if that were the combination. The translation is never reverse order from how it's written due to the language being an english substituted and following English grammatical structure (however pigden). It's more likely to be "Vo-Laan" ("un"-{something})VolsungScubaGear (talk) 02:17, December 16, 2011 (UTC)VolsungScubaGear Pronounciation I don't know how to pronounce the words. I can definitely tell that you have a system, but I don't know what it is. Example: aa, ah, A, apple, awesome, ace, I don't know what letter goes with which pronounciation. Not to mention other vowels. 04:22, December 16, 2011 (UTC) Volaan This has been edited several times by un-signed in users. The first time was with speculation on it being "horror a", the second on being "agony" and after I left a question on where the source for 'agony' was, it was changed to "quickly". Do we have any legitimate reference on this word and what it means? VolsungScubaGear (talk) 09:22, December 18, 2011 (UTC)VolsungScubaGear Mistranslation I'm pretty sure "Viik" and "Kron" are switched. Paarthnuax says "Viik nuz ni kron" in respect to dragonrend, and how it only cripples a dragon, not defeats it. It makes more sense for it to mean "Conquer, but not defeat", as opposed to how it is now. I am changing it as such, please revert it if there is evidence otherwise. Jabberwockxeno (talk) 03:32, December 25, 2011 (UTC) Thur Thur has been listed as overlord but during dialogue with Paarthurnax he translates it as tyranny. Where does the overlord version come from and does it overrule in game dialogue with Paarthurnax? Irrelevant Label (talk) 14:07, December 30, 2011 (UTC) I believe it comes from the Prima Official Guide (don't own it). Regardless, what is the difference between overlord and tyranny? An overlord and a tyrant are the same thing in terms of concept. Perhaps it could be Tyrant as a compromise, but the meaning of the word doesn't change; that's the nature of translation. Know what I mean? --PacifistFist (talk) 01:54, January 5, 2012 (UTC) I follow but it isn't entirely true. One is a title for a leader, the other a system of authority. That is like using monarchy and king as synonyms. They are closely related as frequently part of the same topic with one being the entity that practices and upholds the other, but for the difference to be irrelevant or a subject for a half-way compromise they would need to be synonyms. Irrelevant Label (talk) 15:13, January 6, 2012 (UTC)